Many years ago, i was talking to someone and said jokingly that she always loses in an argument. To which she got peeved and retorted, "I never lose an argument.". Which many years later today, i correct her, "You meant to say you never concede an argument.". One can choose not to concede even when he/she has alredy lost the argument.
I shall digress.
"How are you feeling?" you ask.
"I'm feeling 6.4807." the guy says.
This coming from anyone short of a cyborg, would surely have prompted a reply that goes something like, "You're feeling 6.4807 units of what?"
"6.4807 is a legitimate feeling in and of itself."
You're begining to think that the guy is a cyborg.
Then you say, "But what is the meaning of 6.4807?"
"The square of 6.4807 approaches 42 which is the meaning of life."
This goes on for quite sometime, but eventually you realise that the guy really is a cyborg and not only are you asking the wrong question, you're asking the wrong person.
Back on track.
Here is where faith come in. The term "blind faith" contains redundancy, much like ATM Machine and PIN Number. Faith, of itself, is neccessarily blind. For one could hardly say, "I have faith in you, but i doubt you will succeed." all in the same sentence. It makes for contradictions. But refusing to concede even after losing, is not really faith, more like stubborness. Which in turn means i'm still digressing O_o
A friend who is a theist, recently told me that she does not read my blog anymore. And she quite pointedly repeated to me what she has done, as if it was a big deal. It was and is a big deal, for she is a rather fond friend. She often asked of me, why i read up on atheism articles. It was of her opinion that i did not read up on the articles on the other side of the argument. And between the two, is it so wrong of me to choose the logical side of the argument. One which relies not on faith?
I told her i read up on both sides of the argument, including creationists, and more recently quantum mystics. I said, "Shouldn't we read more variety so we could formulate a better understanding?"
"Yes, it is good to read more. But what you wrote is untrue.", she said. But she missed the fact that the outright dismissal of what i've written/said as untrue, is contradicting what she claims, that it is good to read more.
And she continued, "So i'm not reading your blog anymore. It's untrue, and it's a waste of time to read untrue stuff.". A waste of time, that's what my blog is. But untrue?
I said there was a particular bible verse which ranks women among cows and donkeys, that treat females as mere property of males, and suddenly all i've ever said is untrue? I could be mistaken, but would i knowingly say something untrue? Am i the lying tongue sent by God? (Um... God sent lying tongues to people, read the bible)
What am i to believe as true? That tapping a wooden stick on the ground could part seas? That a god flooded the whole world, with water that came from no where before and went no where after, out of anger is a loving god? What of the koalas, sloths, salamanders (Yes do read up on the movement rate of lungless salamanders) and freshwater and saltwater fishes? Are all humans really descendants through incest of children of Adam and Eve? People dying and coming back to life and such a miraculous event not recorded by any of the 500 witnesses (maybe they are all illiterate)? Creating food and wine out of nothing (No Mr Wang, despite his endurance feats, i think David Blaine is a trickster)? That there is a heaven and hell which no one has been to and return before and that we still can have descriptions of it? Are these all true?
My fond friend, i apologise for offending you. But I do not, for what i've said. It is not as untrue as your God is true. I can contend that i am mistaken and that all the above is true, but can you even allow the possiblity of it being untrue?
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Aha. Let's talk about "miracles" then. And we shall use your "logical" way of looking at things.
ReplyDeleteRecently I pointed you to a New Paper article about an 11-year-old Singaporean girl who could bend metal spoons simply by concentrating hard and moving her hands over the spoons (without actually touching them).
She says that she acquired this ability after attending a class about psychic powers.
She then proceeded to perform her spoon-bending acts right before the eyes of the startled journalist himself.
Are you prepared to accept that that the New Paper journalist was not hallucinating or lying? If so, then, we have something to continue discussing.
Let's be very scientific about this. Firstly, this phenomena isn't anything new. Most famously, it's been done by Uri Geller and David Blaine. Actually, many people can bend spoons in this way, including Michael Crichton, the writer of Jurassic Park. So the 11-year-old Singaporean girl certainly isn't going to enter the Guinness Book of World Records for this.
Now, frankly, there isn't much practical value in psychically bending spoons. All you get is a deformed spoon which you can no longer use. However, what interests us, from a scientific perspective, is how these spoons got bent.
You see, as scientists, we know that the universe operates according to definite principles. The scientific phenomenon which causes an apple to fall down from a tree to hit Newton's head is the same scientific phenomenon that causes the earth to go around the sun; the tides to move in definite rhythms etc. Understanding a single scientific principle actually enables us to understand a wide range of events all around us.
When we see psychics bending spoons, we know we are witnessing something strange. We are seeing an event at work which is seemingly unexplainable by the scientific principles we currently know. This is very exciting. Because we realise that if we can explain how psychics bend spoons, then we know that this will inevitably lead us on to new ground. As Einstein said, "God does not play dice." The universe is not random. Whatever scientific principle enables psychics to bend spoons will also operate throughout the rest of the university - just as the law of gravity applies between any two objects in the world;
just as all matter in the universe is made from protons, neutrons and electrons;
just as energy cannot be destroyed but only changed from one form to another, whether you are considering your car engine, a dying sun or the fats stored in your body.
Right now, we still don't have any scientific explanation of how the spoons are psychically bent. But let's exercise our imagination.
If you can bend a spoon just by moving your hands over it, and concentrating hard
- then is it possible that you could do the same with your eyes closed?
- if it is possible to do it with your eyes closed, is it possible to do it without your hands moving directly over the spoon (say, you put your hands in your pockets)?
- if this is possible, would it be possible to sit many metres away from the spoon, without looking at the spoon, and still bend it?
- if this is possible, would it be possible to bend the spoon while you're somewhere really far away from it (for example, five kilometres away)?
- if this is possible, would it be possible to perform this long-distance act not in relation to a steel spoon, but another metal object, say, a stainless steel pot?
- if this is possible, would it be possible to bend other types of metal objects, say a car?
- if you could mentally bend a car from a long distance, would it be possible if you could just move it physically without bending it?
- if you could do this to a car, could you possibly do it to other types of matter? For example, wood, stone or water?
- if it is possible to do this to water, could Moses actually part the sea?
"Nonsense," you say, "Mr Wang is mad. This is just not possible."
"But I am just being scientific," says Mr Wang. "If Einstein made significant discoveries about time & space by imagining that he could ride on a light beam to the end of the universe, why shouldn't I extrapolate from the example of the 11-year-old girl?"
You feel aggrieved because your your understanding of science tells you that Moses cannot part the sea. However, that same understanding of science tells you that 11-year-old girls should not be able to bend spoons just by concentrating hard. Yet that act happened, right before the eyes of your startled journalists.
I am not trying to be funny here. This, after all, is how the laws of physics works. They are universal. Studying impossibly tiny subatomic particles in a nuclear lab, scientists learn things about how the entire universe was created. My extrapolation is much less grandiose. I only extrapolate from the bending of a spoon to the temporary parting of a sea.
Again, of course, I remind you that I am not a Christian.
Hi mr wang says so,
ReplyDeleteWould it be convenient for you to email me the New Paper article regarding the metal spoon bending 11 year old?
It would seem that you and i approach the same thing in different ways.
You read an article about people bending spoons (without touching) and you extrapolate to an infinite amount of possibilities.
Rather than saying i'm more careful, i would say i'm more skeptical. I read the same article, and i would suspect deception. It could be purposeful deception, it could be a genuine mistake.
I do believe that i have more choices of explanation than just either the journalist is not hallucinating or lying.
Try a google search on "project alpha". You find that even the most skeptical scientist (sorry if i'm appealing to authority here) can be fooled.
Extrapolating from the spoon bending experience is good. In fact extrapolating from anything is good.
While i'm not trying to stifle creativity, i'm also not going to take a leap of faith and consider possibilities as some greater truth or evidence to some greater truth. Maybe spoon bending is a variation of parting water. But it is only a hypothesis.
You may want to say that it is only scientific, testing all hypotheses. But if someone comes up with a hypothesis that if i do a head stand before jumping off a building exactly 81 storeys high dressed only in underwear, i could fly. I'm not going to test such hypothesis.
Oh um... i'm trying to be funny here :)
Maybe one day scientists could unlock mind over matter phenomena and anyone could part seas as they will. And wouldn't that prove Moses is for real? Yeah, he did it thousands of years before the average you and i could do it coz he had God's help. God proven.
You can see the article here:
ReplyDeletehttp://chlim01.blogspot.com/2005/06/uri-gellar-of-singapore.html
I know you're naturally inclined towards the deception explanation. Even after Uri Geller performed his spoon-bending acts under laboratory conditions, monitored under videotape with multiple scientists as witnesses, with electromagnetic equipment to monitor magnetic fields, with spoons scientifically verified to be spoons -
well, there are still people who say, "Oh, it is just deception."
Anyway, as you know, the point is not to say that if the 11-year-old girl can psychically bend spoons, therefore Moses parted the red sea.
The point is that the 11-year-old girl shows that there are many, many things which conventional science says cannot happen, but which happen anyway.
When we read about strange "miracles" that happened in the distant past, it is rather quite silly to say, "Oh, it could not possibly have happened - science tells us that it is not possible"
when even today, "miracles" do happen, right before your own eyes. Regardless of what science says.
Of course, one can say that these are not "miracles" but simply phenomena which science cannot as yet explain. But as I said, these events are so totally inconsistent with our conventional scientific principles that intuitively we already know that whatever the true scientific explanation is, it would radically, radically shake up our current scientific understanding.
And again, let's be quite scientific. You mentioned this:
ReplyDelete"But if someone comes up with a hypothesis that if i do a head stand before jumping off a building exactly 81 storeys high dressed only in underwear, i could fly. I'm not going to test such hypothesis."
But suppose someone did do those things - a headstand, a big jump from 81 storeys, dressed only in underwear - and he flew successfully.
Then suppose he did it another five times, with witnesses, and scientists, and allowed videotaping, and allowed people to check him before the flight, and after the flight, and take his body temperature, his fingerprints, his blood pressure, and examine his underwear etc etc
.... and then suppose he showed other people how to do it .... and amazingly, many people start doing it, and they all flew successfully ....
well, this is like your spoon-bending scenario, is it not?
It is also like your average Anthony Robbins stand-&-walk-barefooted-on-burning-coals-but-your-feet-remain-unburned "miracle", is it not? Which tens of thousands of people all over the world - including many, many Singaporeans - have done, have they not?
And you will still say it is all deception. Will you not?
Hahahaaa. Maybe we must coin a new phrase here. "Blind unfaith".
If you are very scientific about it, you will say:
"Human skin has these properties. A burning red-hot coal smouldering at 130 degrees celsius has these properties. If human skin comes into contact with burning coal, chemical changes must occur to the skin which we call "1st degree burn". It must. These are the laws of science."
Well, it doesn't. Not at an Anthony Robbins seminar, and not at the Hindu Thaipusam festival.
Regarding my flying naked men hypothesis;
ReplyDeleteYou asked me to suppose if someone did it successfully, and to suppose if he did it successfully another five times.
Then suppose someone tried it. And all we get is headlines of broken bits of naked flesh at an 81 storey hotel.
Then i explain/rationalise on his failure. Maybe 81 storeys should include the basement levels. Maybe underwear is gender sepcific, and the guy who tried but failed is missing one piece.
Or maybe his mind wasn't clear. So i start a Church of Bandit, and anyone can come to my house every Sunday for meditation, all the better to clear the mind and start flying. Anyone who falls and die isn't pure enough yet. Donations are voluntary and not required, but i just thought i'll mention offhand that running the Church of Bandit requires a token cost on my voluntary part, so if it is really ok with your conscience...
And so on and so on, would you come to my house every
Sunday? Actually no, i think i need to apply for a religious permit or the like in Sing.ah.pore. I'll think of something..
But enough of my random thoughts for now. What i driving at here is 'when do we stop?'. When do we stop rationalizing and admit that the process to fly is fraud? How many more bits of naked bodies should stain hotel grounds? There can be no end if there is infinite extrapolation. (Sorrie, i'm not referring to the spoon bending miracle again. I'm back at religion.)
Hahaha, blind unfaith. It is quite true, that some atheists become so fixated that atheism becomes a religion itself. Maybe we can classify them into different 'denominations' of atheism, the atheist atheist, who believe that spirituality cannot exist (atheism becomes a belief itself). And the agnostic atheist, who finds little reason to believe in any of the existing systems (atheism remains a lack of beliefs).
Personally, the atheist atheist is not much different than a theist. But religion, it seems, have proven to be a greater evil time and again throughout history.
But what truly boggles my mind when telling others that religion is a delusion is that there are people who cannot turn away from a life of drugs without religion. Who would find life utterly meaningless without religion. For these people, it seems that religion can only bring about good.
Oh... almost forgot, thanks for the link to the newpaper article : )
ReplyDelete